Makes nuclear particles no longer give toxin damage directly. #44990
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this is kind of redundant |
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This is kinda hugbox |
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he died to 😂 nuclear particles 😂 |
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Nah, that'd imply I could do fusion well enough to produce enough of these to kill me. Honestly it was just bants between another atmosian and I when he was doing fusion, he noted that despite the radsuit he was losing health. |
No it isn't. Just prepare toxin medication before doing fusion, will take 2 minutes max. |
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Leaving atmos? That's pretty cringe bro. |
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And yet it's a valid point. |
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Not really because nothing is as simple as "go get toxins medication." Toxin damage for this 1.) Doesn't make sense. 2.) Isn't high enough to be useful as a tool. 3.) Is nigh-permanent and thus when actually trying to do fusion it's going to fuck you over over time. Keep in my this shit will go through doors, windows, and your radsuit. |
Makes sense to me, but you can also have it do burn if you want.
Make it higher then.
If you worry about the consequences after they happen, then yeah, it will fuck you over, but if you actually prepare for it then it's trivial. |
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How the fuck does this make sense. Burns and toxins are symptoms of radiation, wearing a radsuit should negate that, as it does radiation in general. This just gives you fuck you toxins out of nowhere. Raising the toxin damage does nothing but exacerbate this due to how inconvenient toxins are to heal for atmos techs. Stamina heals over time but can be used to good affect combatively, especially in this context against targets without radiation protection. It's a nuclear particle, not a fucking laser. Radiation is something atmos techs do prepare for, this's just something that was thrown in without any care for how it affects radiation equipment because, while this is supposed to be based in radiation, it completely bypasses any sort of radation protection. |
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Why would nuclear particles do stamina damage? |
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They come from Fusion. And frankly you would too. |
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Neutrons from fusion are the exact same ionizing radiation as neutrons from fission. |
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I don't seem like they'd tucker a guy out. |
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They don't it causes, get this. RADIATION DAMAGE! Nuclear Particles is basically shorthand for Neutrons in this case. If the problem you are trying to solve is "nuclear particles bypass rad protection" then instead of doing something that makes no sense, make nuclear particles not bypass rad protection. This is probably a design oversight. |
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Yes but then they're hot garbage with 0 practical applications. |
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They aren't supposed to have a practical applicaiton. Its rad damage from nuclear fusion, that is the exact application they are designed to fill. |
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Actually if I just exponentially increase the radiation given then it'd fuck people up quick. |
pireamaineach
changed the title
Even though we call them "particles" they are clearly not that. Like damn, this thing is larger then the spessmens head. Not to mention that the fact the radsuit can be irradiated harder then chernobyl and still 100% block all rads doesn't makes sense neither. Why aren't you questioning that?
Inconvinient? So you admit this is hugbox, huh. (also 2 fucking minutes of prep is all it takes to workaround this)
If you were in combat that is, but you are isolated in the asshole of the world, so I doubt someone will engage you while you got stunned by fusion
Why is there a lad without rad protection in proximity of a fusion reaction?
Nuclear particles are not visible by the naked eye.
Why not remove radiation if takes preperation? Would be convinient for them, even though it takes 2 minutes to prepare.
And I think it was made that low because it was thrown WITH CARE for the rad protection. Would be pretty shitty to be oneshotted eh? But we can speculate as much as we want. If we want to know the reason why it was made that way we must ask the lad who made it.
It isn't a particle and thus isn't based in radiation. See points made above. |
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Yes the "nuclear particle" isn't REALLY a particle because it doesn't follow my perimeters for particle, so clearly we can just say fuck balance or fun, go to the CHEMIST, and get toxin meds to circumvent something that you should logically be able to withstand in your current equipment, because changing the balance at all would be hugbox and bluepilled, and oh we don't want that. |
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This was clearly unintentional, they threw in toxin damage because "uhhhh radiation" even though the toxins would entirely circumvent any protective equipment you can have. |
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Changing the balance is ok, changing the balance in retarded ways that make no sense given the parameters of the objects design is not. |
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Fusion's hard as it is, you shouldn't actively make it harder. "Oh but only 2 extra minutes lol who even cares." Yeah, two minutes if the fucking STARS ALIGN and the chemist isn't a total shitter. |
Yeah I changed it it just deals radiation now. Double the amount it did prior but y'know. |
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Make it burn damage then like was said, it's dumb to be able to lounge next to an active fucking fusion reaction with particles so high energy they're visible to the naked eye in a flimsy radsuit. Fusion isn't meant to be safe or easy. |
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Fusion is literally easy as fuck, go to the turbine, set the filter to filter out tritium, add oxygen, and congratulations you have fusion, it doesn't take an absolute galaxy brain to do it. |
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But you’ve said it’s game logic yourself. Why are you bringing up IRL logic again? |
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This isn't I.R.L. logic this is game logic. In real life radiation WOULD bleed, but not in game, so why can it here? It's clearly an oversight. |
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If it’s game logic then why doesn’t it make sense? You keep claiming that it doesn’t make sense, but it doesn’t make sense only using IRL logic. Within game logic it makes perfect sense and I’ve provided points as to why above. |
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Yeah you've provided 0 actual valid points and there's no actual grounding in game logic. It being a dangerous process doesn't mean it gets to circumvent what little established logic there is within the game. |
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nuclear reactors use graphite, which is made of carbon, charcoal is made of carbon |
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I’ve just looked up the PR that added the particles, here is what it says
They were specifically made to deal damage. It’s not an oversight as you claim it to be.
0 valid points eh? Just because I disagree with you all of my point are invalid? Well all of your points are basicly flinging back and forth from “This doesn’t make sense IRL” and “This is a game, so it shouldn’t make sense” (and also a bunch of other points you’ve seem to abandon defending after me replying to them), all in order to justify a change that is done for the sole purpose of “convinience”. This is fucking H U G B O X to the boot and does not deserve to be merged. |
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Argue all you want, but you can currently have radiation immune races die to radiation particles dealing radiation damage. That is pretty stupid. Thats not to say these cant deal any damage at all, but if they are going to apply toxin damage they should at least check if it makes sense. If this is merged it closes #41502. Add that to the OP please. |
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I get the point that applying forced toxin damage and pretending it is rad damage sucks, especially if you are a rad safe species in a radiation suit. Just change it to "White hot particals" and hit them with burn then, or "Highly charged particals" with burn + shock. This avoids the whole fake radiation damage to radsuit/rad proof species issue and is still fits the theme. |
He removed the flat damage (the thing I was arguing against), and increased the radiation value by two times. You sure it will fix that issue? |
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@kriskog It doesn't entirely fix that issue, as rad immune races still weirdly take radiation from this, it's just that nothing happens to them. |
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Let me see if I can fix that. |
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Apply it using rad_act, though it will make rad suits block it. Which makes sense. Then leave the damage, maybe swap to burn? |
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Why would the damage exist, that would also bypass radiation equipment. Fusion can already deal enough burn with having it go through walls, doors, and suits. |
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Well up to you, its your PR. |
So the problem with that is that rad_act in itself called EFFECT_RADIATION. |
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Yeah I was wrong, do it the right way |
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I just made xray beams and nuclear particles roll for rad protection instead of laser or nothing. |
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xray lasers need some basic damage to deal with simplemobs (like revenants breaking windows while hiding behind a shuttle wall) so leave them as they were |
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But they still do burn, they just check for rad protection. While simple mobs don't take rads they also have no protection, and will take full damage. |
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Burn damage, that is. |
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all I will say about this pr is it's getting kind of old to always walk into atmos, hear fusion noises, and see an atmos tech on the floor in crit. also sometimes nuclear particles damage borgs for some reason who knows |
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These traits have been given by default to androids (artificial, they were already immune to chemical healing anyway), zombies (who have their own regeneration) and skeletons (milk still works). Other changes: Species' handle_reagents proc now fires before checking for metabolization, so species can process chems even when liverless. Removed the calcium healer trait, making it into a species handle_reagents check for each affected species (skeletons, plasmamen, bone golems). Skeletons now also heal burn damage from milk, since it's one of the few forms of healing they have available. Note: These traits should logically be applied to plasmamen and golems, but i intentionally left them out for now since it would be a significant balance shift, and there should be a proper alternative way of healing them first. Why It's Good For The Game Balances the significant benefits of being undead with a significant negative: being immune to chemical healing. Since zombies don't really rely on it and androids were already heal-immune, this mostly affects liches, and i believe it should be fine: considering that the main point of the spell is the resurrection mechanism, the space, gas, pierce, and heat/cold immunity they also gain should be counterbalanced by having a harder time recovering from injuries. There is also a silver lining to having this trait: poison immunity. Effectively this is a buff to androids and zombies, the latter especially because they can no longer process mutation toxins. While this tactic is creative, it also trivializes a very expensive investment of TC. I might still add a liverless way to apply mutation toxins later on, but zombies shouldn't be effectively one-shot by a syringe gun. Changelog cl add: Androids, skeletons and zombies no longer metabolize reagents. As such they no longer benefit from healing reagents, nor are affected by poisons and toxins. add: These species are now also immune to any other form of toxin damage. tweak: Milk now also heals burn damage for skeletons. /cl # This is the commit message tgstation#120: Automatic changelog generation for PR tgstation#44846 [ci skip] # This is the commit message tgstation#121: Automatic changelog compile, [ci skip] # This is the commit message tgstation#122: Automatic changelog compile, [ci skip] # This is the commit message tgstation#123: Fixes interaction between job-based IDs and agent cards (tgstation#45176) * Job IDs and agent card fixes combined * Fixes random wallet icons being visible # This is the commit message tgstation#124: Wallet QOL improvements (tgstation#45178) * Wallet name includes displayed ID Adds Alt-click to remove it * Use regular altclick if it's in storage # This is the commit message tgstation#125: Automatic changelog generation for PR tgstation#45178 [ci skip] # This is the commit message tgstation#126: Lollipop rework (tgstation#45153) * Fixed branch * added missing comma * removed from vending # This is the commit message tgstation#127: Automatic changelog generation for PR tgstation#45153 [ci skip] # This is the commit message tgstation#128: Replaces the slime extract in the clown biodome with a superlube sprayer. (tgstation#45134) # This is the commit message tgstation#129: Automatic changelog generation for PR tgstation#45134 [ci skip] # This is the commit message tgstation#130: Species important for life (tgstation#45179) * important to live items * outfit * autodoc * comment change * return # This is the commit message tgstation#131: Automatic changelog generation for PR tgstation#45179 [ci skip] # This is the commit message tgstation#132: [READY] Contractor Hub (tgstation#45117) * Contract Hub + Pinpointer + more contracts * Show rep * Better errors * Dynamic hub * Bug fixes * Show items * No html in desc * compile * contractor support * limit * allow limits of 1 web edit * Equip and send partner + turf helper * working reinforcements * Cleanup * removing debug * blackout * test * Working buttons * no debug * prelight * finalized interface * better fit * hub icon * conflict * text * error * kit tweaks * items * fixup * fixup * bugfix * ui fix # This is the commit message tgstation#133: Automatic changelog generation for PR tgstation#45117 [ci skip] # This is the commit message tgstation#134: baseturf_helper fix (tgstation#44937) * Update mapping_helpers.dm * up * up * mod baseturf_helper to have baseturf_to_replace = /turf/baseturf_bottom * ups comma * up * Revert "up" This reverts commit 7fb8a2e. * up * Revert "up" This reverts commit e2e3db5. * Revert "Revert "up"" This reverts commit eff83a9. * Revert "up" This reverts commit 7fb8a2e. * Revert "ups comma" This reverts commit 5829dd9. * Revert "mod baseturf_helper" This reverts commit f5a1c7f. * Update mapping_helpers.dm * Update mapping_helpers.dm * Update mapping_helpers.dm * Update mapping_helpers.dm # This is the commit message tgstation#135: Automatic changelog generation for PR tgstation#44937 [ci skip] # This is the commit message tgstation#136: fixed surgery being broken how did nobody notice this LOL (tgstation#45182) # This is the commit message tgstation#137: Automatic changelog generation for PR tgstation#45182 [ci skip] # This is the commit message tgstation#138: Sentient disease cures consistently harder, fixes uncurable diseases (tgstation#45148) * Sentient disease cures consistently harder. * Some comments. * comment update. # This is the commit message tgstation#139: Automatic changelog generation for PR tgstation#45148 [ci skip] # This is the commit message tgstation#140: Mining Base Changes: Less empty office, more stuff, stuff that used to be is back (tgstation#45166) * Changes to Mining Base to make it better, brings back the old storage closets * Yes * Changes lockers to locked, labels the cameras correctly * does what cabby wanted * fixed an oopsie # This is the commit message tgstation#141: Automatic changelog generation for PR tgstation#45166 [ci skip] # This is the commit message tgstation#142: Improving upon the Metastation bar design (tgstation#45169) * Ok Work Redone * Airalarm & Firelock moved, Windows added, newscaster added * Puts the preperation table in a better place * Adds a extra table and swaps for r-tables # This is the commit message tgstation#143: Automatic changelog generation for PR tgstation#45169 [ci skip] # This is the commit message tgstation#144: Fixes MMI's hearing cult chat sometimes. (tgstation#45187) * Fixes MMI's hearing deadchat somtimes. * Alright, less safe but also less expensive safety net. # This is the commit message tgstation#145: Fixed supply shuttle safety warning (tgstation#45164) The safety warning preventing players from reaching centcom did not include any mention of cyborgs or the AI which however still trigger the warning. # This is the commit message tgstation#146: Automatic changelog generation for PR tgstation#45164 [ci skip] # This is the commit message tgstation#147: Gateway exiling counts for assassination/mutiny objectives (tgstation#45120) * exiling someone via gateway now counts properly for mutiny/assassination objectives * papers please * ninja changes * removes redundant else, istype # This is the commit message tgstation#148: Automatic changelog generation for PR tgstation#45120 [ci skip] # This is the commit message tgstation#149: Automatic changelog compile, [ci skip] # This is the commit message tgstation#150: Adds SHOULD_CALL_PARENT to Destroy() (tgstation#45188) Timers, signals, and components need to know when the thing they're attached to is getting destroyed or bad things happen. Since any datum can make use of these every destroy needs to call parent. # This is the commit message tgstation#151: Add autodocs and linting tags to elements (tgstation#45189) # This is the commit message tgstation#152: Random pixel shift for dropped/thrown objects (tgstation#45155) * pixels * offset for any throw, critical bedsheet bugfix * nyeh * might as well (autodoc) * renamed proc * removed redundant src * moved call from dropped() to dropItemToGround() * handles storage dumping, customizable max offset * adjusted values * inline # This is the commit message tgstation#153: Automatic changelog generation for PR tgstation#45155 [ci skip] # This is the commit message tgstation#154: Automatic changelog compile, [ci skip] # This is the commit message tgstation#155: Clown Mutation (Clumsy) and Wizard Mutations can no longer be cured. (tgstation#45201) * no mutadone cure * no loop * oops * mutation fix # This is the commit message tgstation#156: Automatic changelog generation for PR tgstation#45201 [ci skip] # This is the commit message tgstation#157: Automatic changelog compile, [ci skip] # This is the commit message tgstation#158: Fix hitting unpowered ORM (tgstation#45203) Now unpowered ore redemption machine can be attacked. # This is the commit message tgstation#159: Automatic changelog generation for PR tgstation#45203 [ci skip] # This is the commit message tgstation#160: Singlecard description change (tgstation#45205) Changed the description for a single (playing) card to be more accurate. # This is the commit message tgstation#161: Automatic changelog generation for PR tgstation#45205 [ci skip] # This is the commit message tgstation#162: Ratvar callback no longer fires if item deleted by damage taken (tgstation#45215) # This is the commit message tgstation#163: fixes an incorrect area on donut # This is the commit message tgstation#164: Automatic changelog generation for PR tgstation#45223 [ci skip] # This is the commit message tgstation#165: Fixes (tgstation#45210) # This is the commit message tgstation#166: Automatic changelog generation for PR tgstation#45210 [ci skip] # This is the commit message tgstation#167: Medipen and regen cores can now be used in hand (tgstation#45161) * Medipen and regen cores can now be activated in hand. * Autodoc * Old regen core description. * Cyborg proc begone * cleanup, no tk shenanigans. * Removed unusable pen. * better return. # This is the commit message tgstation#168: Automatic changelog generation for PR tgstation#45161 [ci skip]
About The Pull Request
Nuclear particles dealing straight toxin is slightly redundant, and it circumvents radiation equipment. Not good. Closes #41502
Why It's Good For The Game
Nuclear particles shouldn't kill people through rad suits.
Changelog
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balance: Nuclear particles irradiate more, but no longer deal toxin damage directly, and roll for rad protection.
balance: X-ray beams now roll for rad-armour, meaning they penetrate laser armour but are completely negated by rad-suits.
/:cl: